An uncomfortable opinion.

Gawd, I hate this. I try to be fair, though, and just because I don’t like a person, that doesn’t mean I can never think they have a point. And racist, no talent fuckbrain Ted Nugent does, I believe, have a point.

And before you react emotionally, consider this. Marijuana and cocaine have both been banned for the better part of a century. Do you know anyone who has problems getting either?

Alcohol is forbidden to anyone under 21, so teenagers are unable to get beer on the weekends, right?

Do you think that if Cho had been denied a gun at the gun shop, that he NEVER could have gotten one illegally? Do you think he would have just “calmed down” if he’d had to go that route?

We all know how we’d LIKE things to be in the world. We have to deal with the way they ARE, though. And no, it isn’t easy, and it never will be.



  1. Ya know Joe, I usually admire your ability to express a point – whether I agree or not.

    But Ted Nugent – no talent? Cat Scratch Fever? Come ON Joe.

    I am so disappointed. 😦

    (BTW – on topic. No legislation is going to prevent EVERY single tragedy from ever happening. It doesn’t mean the legislation is completely useless. It does, however, give lobbyists and special interest groups just enough room to spin.)

  2. Here’s the way I see it (this may be long, bear with me):

    1. If we ban guns today, there are still likely a million or so on the street, so getting one would be easy.
    2. It would take a long time to gradually remove all the guns from the population (with each bust, another one gone). But they wouldn’t be replaced, leading to a reduction in gun population.
    3. If guns were banned, there wouldn’t be newer, more efficient, and more dangerous ones being introduced every year, and available at any store for less than a new TV costs.

    So, let’s say guns were banned in the 70’s. By now the number available to people would be so minor, that they would be prohibitively expensive according to supply and demand (and the black market is as pure an S&D model as there can be). The odds are that Cho would never have been able to afford the guns he got.

    There’s no perfect solution to this. However, banning guns will make it that much more difficult for this to happen again despite the tired arguments against any form of gun control.

    Anyway, that’s what I think.

    Ook ook

    PS: Ted Nugent is perhaps the most perfect example of NRA thinking there is.

  3. Britt-

    Hah! That was definitely NOT the point I was expecting to get called on! 🙂

    I’m not actually a strict supporter of the status quo, but this, I think, addresses those who feel that an all-out ban is what we need. An all out ban never works, no matter what you are banning. All that does is create another black market.

  4. “But they wouldn’t be replaced, leading to a reduction in gun population.”

    You’re dreaming. You don’t think that the pot on the streets today is just what was on the street when it was made illegal, do you? The only change is that most of the guns available after a period of time will be foriegn – made.

  5. Ted Nugent is exactly right. Stranglehold is an awesome piece of rock art. And since when is he a racist?

    I’m not a fan of people being paranoid enough to walk around armed. But concealed carry licenses carry so many restrictions, I’m not concerned about the people who can get them. I’m with Ted. A gun-free zone is potentially a defense-free zone, but is especially by no means a crime-free zone.

    I also read the linked counterpoint and it said nothing relevant and was nearly incoherent. The least he could have done was discussed Fez Monkey’s idea, which bears looking at. I disagree with it, one reason being I’m not willing to see a 30-year spike in gun crime for that rather uncertain long-term result of having fewer guns around. But it’s a popular idea amongst those who would treat the gun crime issue as an epidemic. Doctors and scientists prefer the epidemiological approach of attacking the disease vector, so to speak, which in this case is guns. A logical idea, but only if you ignore the environment in which it is implemented.

  6. Joe – I think the flaw in your Pot = Guns argument is that anyone on the street can grow pot. Same with other drugs like coke, etc. Plus, smuggling that is much easier than smuggling a gun. Banning guns means they will not be readily avialble, and their price would skyrocket. That alone would start to reduce the number of “incidents.” Also, the idea here is not to eliminate crime, or that banning guns immediately creates a utopia. But the sort of things like what happened at VT were done by people who bought guns legally. Most criminals don’t suddenly snap and take out a school. Thus, while crime may not be immediately effected, this sort of think will be much much less likely to happen.

    Banning would not be a foolproof solution by any means, but simply stating it would have no impact doesn’t seem to make sense either.

    Ook ook.

    PS: Cat Scratch Fever is overrated 🙂

  7. If the pot on the streets today is the exact same pot that was on the streets in the 70s, then that dealer needs to find a new line of work, STAT.

    And in OUR neck of the woods, at this very moment they have a guy holed up in a building at NASA (Johnson Space Ctr.), shots fired, hostages, nearby schools in lockdown.

    What is it with this week in April? OKC, Columbine, VT…

    Oh, a point, I was supposed to have a point. Yes. Personally, I’m not a member of the crazy-ass NRA but still believe in “the right to bear arms”; however, assault rifles/AK47s/etc. SHOULD be banned. There is no discernible purpose for that particular type of weaponry besides mass killing.

    Or, as Chris Rock said, leave the guns alone…but make the bullets cost $5,000 EACH.

  8. correction: I didn’t mean to imply that anyone can grow coke or heroin … poorly phrased on my part.

    If you don’t accept that, then I will call you names, etc.

  9. Don – Ted was a contestant in my January American Asshole competition for, among other things, spouting off about foriegners that don’t speak English in a speech that made even the far righties that he was speaking to uncomfortable. I tried to link to it, but unfortuanately, it’s gone. Also, in the article I link to in this post, he feels that it is necessary to point out that Cho was “non-American”, as if that has anything to do with anything. What, Americans never go off the deep end? Cho has been here since he was 8, for fucksake. And Stranglhold is really the only song of his I can stomach, as it does have a good bass line.

    Fez- “Plus, smuggling that (pot or cocaine) is much easier than smuggling a gun.”

    Why would that be? Can dogs smell guns more easily than pot? Is a box of guns necessarily smaller than a bale? There are guns now made of a hard plastic that metal detectors cannot see, so that isn’t even a guarantee anymore. Are the government officials who currently accept bribes to let drugs go through going to stop taking bribes when it’s guns they’re supposed to overlook?

    I do agree with you about CSF, though.

    DangerDoll – I saw that story on the web – it pointed out that NASA is a “gun free zone.” Well, not today, it isn’t.

    I don’t know what it is this week. It was a lousy week for appointments, too! Maybe the prospects are afraid we’ll show up with guns.

  10. Back to Don- It was about a year ago when some guy walked into an Albuquerque Wal-Mart, went up to one of the cashiers (his ex) and started stabbing her. People just stood there stunned, except for one guy who had a concealed carry permit. He shot the guy, killed him, and saved the woman’s life. She was in bad shape, but is still alive today. Can you believe that there were people ANGRY that he had a gun in the store? One guy on a local radio program actualy said that he should be arrested for murder, and that people could have saved her life just as easily by pelting the guy with Wal-Mart merchandise. Well, if the guy shops at Wal-Mart for his bullets, then that is exactly what happened, AFAIC. I’l bet the stab victim doesn’t mind concealed carry permits.

  11. There are “gun-free zones” just like there are “drug-free zones”. In other words…THERE AREN’T.

  12. OK, Nugent’s got his xenophobic side. Too bad because it diminishes the impact of his being right on the gun thing.

    Speakin’ of x-free zones, my home town cracks me up because it’s a nuclear-free zone yet has one of the nation’s pioneering physics research facilities …

    but make the bullets cost $5,000 EACH

    I know you (or he) are being facetious but I always saw this sort of solution as nothing but a big “screw you” to folks who live in high-crime area and can’t afford to move out. It’s interesting to me the huge gap between public perception of legal gun-owners as being mostly rural, and the reality of many law-abiding residents of the inner city who pack. Maybe they don’t get polled, or answer the polls accurately (possibly for good reason), or otherwise vote liberal anyway, indeed, I’ve known folks who always vote for liberal pro-gun-control politicians but will keep their guns anyway, legal or not.

  13. “OK, Nugent’s got his xenophobic side. Too bad because it diminishes the impact of his being right on the gun thing.”

    Not at all. Like I said, just because I don’t like a lot of things about him, including that, it doesn’t mean he can’t be right about something else. Vegetarians don’t have to stop being vegetarians just because Hitler was one, too.

    “my home town cracks me up because it’s a nuclear-free zone yet has one of the nation’s pioneering physics research facilities …”

    I immediately thought of Fermilab. Are you in Illinois?

  14. Don – Yes, I was being facetious, and I assume Rock was also. But it still cracked my shit right UP.

  15. …and WHOA! Hitler was a vegetarian? I didn’t know that. My husband’s ex was a militant vegetarian. Now I have one more snide comparison to make! You rock!

  16. I live to serve, DD. 🙂

  17. Hey Joe you know what I think! I wish I did!This is such a huge question with valid points on both sides but even I know a total ban would not work.

    The point Fez Monkey made about the price of the firearms soaring well I doubt that would happen to any great degree. Over here you can get them even rent them and from what I hear in the media it’s not that expensive. But it’s just the thugs that want them over here. No easy answer is there?

  18. I immediately thought of Fermilab. Are you in Illinois?

    No, I grew up in Berkeley, CA, where they discovered Berkelium, among several other so-called elements. They don’t do weapons research there, of course … but they do at the other Lawrence Lab out in Livermore, about thirty miles away. (Where I am now is conveniently hinted at in my blog’s sidebar …)

  19. If we could get rid of all guns, that would be best, but we can’t. I don’t want to wait decades to see if taking them away from law abiding peeps is going to help anything. But automatic weapons, etc. should be banned. The Nuge is gross, even on the rare occasion when he gets something right.

  20. If you want something badly enough, you’ll get it. Besides, what are they going to do? Put up signs? And is a deranged person going to say, “Gee, I’d go on a murderous rampage but there’s a sign saying I can’t.” I’m anti-gun but gun access and abuse is not the core of this issue. Mental illness is.

  21. it doesn’t matter if guns are banned or not. if they can’t get a gun, they’ll use a butcher knife. crazy people are going to do crazy things and I don’t see how we can ever stop it.

  22. Ted Nugent, No talented? Sorry, I have to disagree with you on this one.

  23. No, banning the gun isn’t going to make shootings go away, and all of the waiting periods didn’t help out in this case, since he bought his weapons/ammo way in advance. We do have to figure out how to help people who are mentally unstable, though. Some people did try to get this young man some help, but it can’t be forced and the kid had not caused physical harm to anyone before his rampage. So what are we to do? Can you force someone to get help? Can you keep them locked up forever? This is a very tough thing.

    I am not blaming VT at all for this. That kid is responsible for his actions and there is no way on earth that each and every student can be protected against each and every threat on the earth. Waking up and breathing is a gift for each of us every day.

  24. Interesting take, with many good points, from a self-righteous, hypocritical nutjob whom I will forever adore for giving us Wango Tango. One thing, though:

    “God-given right to keep and bear arms”

    Anytime I hear this phrase I want to start smacking someone. God didn’t write the Bill of Rights, dickloaf, people did.

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